tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2003179838033505286.post7631443681640214023..comments2024-03-02T08:05:27.110-08:00Comments on Thee Outernet: She's Just Not That Into Youchloe lumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08634124808535327389noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2003179838033505286.post-67636107289778596902009-04-02T19:24:00.000-07:002009-04-02T19:24:00.000-07:00I think some amazing points have been raised here!...I think some amazing points have been raised here!!! Yeah politics!!<BR/><BR/>Okay! As a female performer in a band with two men, it is sadly barely even noteworthy on tour to play a show and be the only woman in the entire line up. And the word token is used too often. But then ShPx is a rather wonderfully extreme token band as we have queer and colour and women representation, and my bandmates often feel like they too are tokens. <BR/><BR/>While I don't know if I would go so far as to boycott shows that only feature male performers (of course situation dependent), I would far rather that women were encouraged to get up and fucking do it, that there wasn't a barrier (however intentional or not, there is a barrier), and that we could have dialogue at shows about how unequal representation is in harsher music genres, and about how it is not "ladylike" to make abrasive music, and about how white-male/heteronormative shows usually are. I know the community here in Vancouver is very supportive of it's crew, and tries very hard to break down dividers, and I feel like it's getting easier here for women to get 'er done (to use a lovely, seemingly apt expression), so I don't really know how necessary it would be for me to ever boycott a show! But this is of course not the case everywhere, sad truth.<BR/><BR/>And I agree all too strongly about the complete apathy that is at so-called punk shows these days, reflective of the general apathy I would estimate 99.999999999% of the population has. (Side note: I get so very excited at shows when I have even one amazing, thought-provoking, heated, challenging discussion with a like-minded person, but sadly this does not happen as often as I wish it would. Sigh.) We are all in the minority my dear friends, but what a minority it is!ErinW.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13685811722029786335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2003179838033505286.post-86968083679754162182009-03-17T01:12:00.000-07:002009-03-17T01:12:00.000-07:00i think its a shame that the kids now, that i run ...i think its a shame that the kids now, that i run into, overall are absent of politics. recently these discussions have been coming up with the "older" opeople (23 +).<BR/>i went to a strange party/ show recently at a house and was talking to my friend who is an 18 yo girl. this dude got mad that she was speaking to a boy and ran by and dragged her off. we yelled "WTF" but it all happened so fast we didnt know where she ended up. later she came out of the darkness looking like she had been crying, but like smiling trying to cover it up. me and my friend talked to her and were like "fuck that, its really important that you dont associate with assholes like that". she started to tell us about the guys at shows spitting on her, calling her a bitch, etc cos she broke up with her bf b/c he cheated on her! i mean this shit is fucking insane. and though i believe in "living by example" i am also fully aware that a situation like this wont be fixed by me trying to live right and support the people who need it. so now its the position of what the fuck do you do to try and change it? i dunno, sometimes i feel like i'm more at the superbowl than a show that is progressive and full of ideas that i relate to.vicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100643716490920919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2003179838033505286.post-20367148855142060362009-03-14T22:48:00.000-07:002009-03-14T22:48:00.000-07:00this is a super depressing post. the subject matte...this is a super depressing post. the subject matter of male-dominated music scenes is something no one wants to discuss, yet everyone tolerates. to be a woman in this context can be overwhelmingly depressing, though not all women 'let it get to them'. <BR/>recently in olympia, a woman putting on a show was sexually harassed by a guy in a band. after she made it an issue, there was a lot of discussion about what kind of action, if any would be appropriate to take. what ended up happening, was a group of men (most of whom play in bands and would identify as 'staight rock dudes' who are not of the p.c. or activist variety) met to talk about gender, patriarchy and sexism. i thought this was a pretty rad solution...a step in the right direction.<BR/>i also support the boycott... i've been playing in bands since 1985 and this has not changed and it is fucking bullshit. when all the bands are guys at a show women are often working the door and in the audience, yet when sexual harassment happens, how is it dealt with? it isn't. this is an extreme example of what can go wrong, but this is something that happens at shows often and is not generally dealt with. if shows are work environments of a kind, then what kind of recourse is there for women working the shows either as musicians or volunteers (or paid staff) when these incidents happen? <BR/>because i played in bikini kill, a band whose main purpose was to challenge this climate, when we played shows we not only did we become aware of how many women are harassed at punk shows generally, but also of how much sexual assault happens within punk/hardcore scenes. we are talking about some serious shit here and you might think i am being extreme but you would not fucking believe how prevalent this is--at every single one of our shows for 7 years we had women and girls telling us their stories and this is something i will never forget. <BR/>male dominance of public space is part of the problem and it needs to be challenged at shows just as much as it does in movie theaters on public transportation and on the streets.<BR/>for me, as an artist, when i am super into a scene or an era it is just so psychically draining to have to deal with male-domination on that front. it's like, can't we please have a break? when is it going to stop? will it ever stop? it makes me so frustrated, so sad and so tired.Tobi Vailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052149126555935296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2003179838033505286.post-35042952242390114072009-03-13T19:50:00.000-07:002009-03-13T19:50:00.000-07:00Chloe, I'm sure many people will tell you it's a s...Chloe, I'm sure many people will tell you it's a state of mind, but I'm beginning to feel that "old" is when the bands you loved as a kid are now revered by high-schoolers as their version of "classic rock".<BR/><BR/>Haha....humor bad? I guess it was back in the 90s, huh? It was so hard to reconcile my fandom of HC and my longing for a hella-cute riot grrl of my dreams (all the while patiently waiting out her L.U.G.* phase) and my enjoyment of the Oblivians....and dare I mention the Country Teasers. Well, it wasn't hard for me, really, but for too many other people, it seemed like a big deal over nothing. And in the letters section of MRR.<BR/><BR/>The indie/undie/DIY/punk world is so much more keen on "the big picture" now....it's really refreshing. I've been at shows in the past couple years where I've looked back from the front 'n center to see a sea of faces from teenagers to middle-aged-record-collectors-with-beards and all genders, sexualities, increasingly more races and multi-races, and there have been times where each and every face is smiling or laughing simultaneously, or perhaps looking like a sporting team coming out of a time-out huddle with the score tied and ten seconds on the clock and with 100% faith that executing the gameplan is gonna pay off in a championship(*).....and THAT is when I know that the music that's happening at that very moment is very likely historically crucial and will leave a lasting positive effect on music to come. Bands as varied as partyhardy picture-perfect catchy pop to arty garage/weirdpunk or whatever to spontaneously composed (s)avant-jazz. Surely, it's bands that are still predominantly male, but that can only change when more ladies, and especially this young generation that were mere toddlers when riot grrl was impacting, get deprogrammed so as to reject the socializing effect of seeing music as a man's world.<BR/><BR/>I can tell you that "Crimson Wave" is having some measurable effect here in my community where <I>XXperiments</I> is currently a hit on the local community freeform radio station. Witness two all-female new musical acts debuting in live performance here which are definitely influenced by these particular artists.<BR/><BR/>* Is it okay to make a sports metaphor when describing something happening at a punk/DIY/noise/whatever show? Pardon me, but I thought that taboo might've been crushed by that riff from "Rich People" by The Hospitals a couple years back. (Copped offa "Go! Fight! Win!" as heard every 15 minutes during March Madness on ESPN. Yes, it's still my pump-up jam!)DJ Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15192376447889019598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2003179838033505286.post-3209808728509191192009-03-12T16:44:00.000-07:002009-03-12T16:44:00.000-07:00When boys become Men and grrrls become Ladies I gu...When boys become Men and grrrls become Ladies I guess.<BR/><BR/>I don't know, I really shouldn't be commenting here at all, I flunked my (Be)Coming Out: Race, Gender in the Material World Class for quoting Woody Allen.<BR/><BR/>Plus I am into BDSM so that is a major disqualifier too. <BR/><BR/>Also humor... baaaaaaaaaad. <BR/><BR/>Aren't you supposed to be rocking now? Don't leave those MEN out there while you are blogging for fucks sake Chloe.Schneidlomathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00284866981062411070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2003179838033505286.post-52576416080082316772009-03-12T16:04:00.000-07:002009-03-12T16:04:00.000-07:00how old does one have to be to be old?how old does one have to be to be old?chloe lumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08634124808535327389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2003179838033505286.post-53386403093630609482009-03-12T09:39:00.000-07:002009-03-12T09:39:00.000-07:00i feel what chloe says in terms of "tokenism". bec...i feel what chloe says in terms of "tokenism". <BR/>because it kind of reduces you/the person to just one set of criteria, essentializing someone along a narrow spectrum. the only counter argument i would put is that ROCK is at an entry level a superficial/one criteria type of world and i know for myself that seeing at least a superficial diversity can be empowering.<BR/>in my own life, seeing fisticuffs bluff or j church made me feel less isolated as a music fan seeing other asian american dudes really excelling musically in performance.<BR/>i played as part of this asian american musi series in sf. in my group of 4 dudes, i was the only asian, and i wanted to represent what i was doing in the context of the asian am community because it's just not really represented, but i didn't really consult with my band who just viewed it as a gig and might have felt weird about it. the show was weird for several reasons, but race ended up being one of the minor points really, it was just oddly juxtaposed musics thrown together under this umbrella.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459410405528012273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2003179838033505286.post-83745690962609354322009-03-12T09:28:00.000-07:002009-03-12T09:28:00.000-07:00that's a good point. tokenism is frustrating. so ...that's a good point. tokenism is frustrating. so are systemic/social barriers that don't make it easy for ladies to feel empowered to play.<BR/><BR/>if someone needs a time out from all-dudes shows, i can totally understand that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2003179838033505286.post-32748393960641265882009-03-12T08:59:00.000-07:002009-03-12T08:59:00.000-07:00as a music lady , my biggest repulsion has always ...as a music lady , my biggest repulsion has always been tokenism. As much as I love playing with other women , I'd be seriously bummed to be booked or validated because of my ovaries. \<BR/><BR/><BR/>I think rather than boycotts , what needs to happen is more women and girls need to be empowered to play.<BR/><BR/> I don't see it as productive to boycott boys.chloe lumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08634124808535327389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2003179838033505286.post-28823371421464556242009-03-12T08:03:00.000-07:002009-03-12T08:03:00.000-07:00http://nightwoodband.com/2009/03/12/la-frigid-ice-...http://nightwoodband.com/2009/03/12/la-frigid-ice-queen-melting/<BR/><BR/>...a wee response/validation for how that lady feels...thanks for posting this!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2003179838033505286.post-15005923626282129372009-03-11T22:38:00.000-07:002009-03-11T22:38:00.000-07:00I'm so glad you're blogging about this. Your post...I'm so glad you're blogging about this. Your post is very well written and insightful. Three things that come to mind - 1. what are the pros and cons of boycotts, given that they are a type of passive resistance? 2. what happens when you take politics out of music created in a political context (i.e. - punk/hardcore or riot grrrl)? and 3. why are certain music scenes still so male dominated?<BR/><BR/>There are no easy answers. I've learned the real lessons are in the questions.anonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08764936869304743971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2003179838033505286.post-42464923741361033092009-03-11T17:34:00.000-07:002009-03-11T17:34:00.000-07:00Political Correctness and Poker sure are getting a...Political Correctness and Poker sure are getting a lot of attention lately.<BR/><BR/>Fuck card games. I'm there for the music and the people and the drinking.Endthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04840706148751368476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2003179838033505286.post-14627174183653842292009-03-11T13:48:00.000-07:002009-03-11T13:48:00.000-07:00this is funny, because i actualy spoke with the bo...this is funny, because i actualy spoke with the booker of this show and he considers both this show and the show at the same space on the next night that he also booked to be a 2 day experimental/noise fest. the next night there are lots of female performers. would this info help lift the boycott?Cassette Godshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08614931568889052917noreply@blogger.com